Mission: Impact podcast & blog
Build a better world without becoming a martyr to your nonprofit cause
Listen on:
![]() In episode 95 of Mission: Impact, Carol Hamilton and Emily Taylor discuss
[11:15] Recognizing Organizational Dependence how nonprofits become overly dependent on a charismatic CEO and how this can stifle organizational growth and sustainability. [20:56] Strategic Reflection Before Planning nonprofits should engage in reflective practices to understand their true challenges before embarking on strategic planning. [23:03] Gaining Objective Insights the benefit of having an outsider's perspective to identify common goals and values among staff that may be clouded by internal bias or jargon. [33:02] The Human Aspect of Leadership leaders must view themselves as humans with limitations, which can foster a healthier organizational culture and enable growth beyond the capabilities of a single individual. Guest Bio: Emily Taylor works with nonprofit leaders who are ready to catapult their organizations into their next stage of growth by shifting their decision-making from intuitive to intentional. Leaders who seek Emily’s expertise are not only frustrated with the typical strategic planning process but don’t feel fully informed to make big, long-term decisions. Instead, she first grounds the organization in ‘who they are’ to help them prioritize the challenges that lie ahead. To achieve this, Emily applies her individualized strategic listening methodology with an organization's community, allowing teams to 'see their value' and align their decision-making as an organization, not just the CEO. She helps them find a planning process that fits their needs, not something that is out of the box, which is why most organizations get frustrated with strategic planning! Important Links and Resources: Emily Taylor: Paper on pre-strategic planning: Related Episodes: Episode 21: Investing in the next generation of nonprofit leaders with Andy Robinson Episode 60: Why bother doing strategic planning? Episode 70 Values Based nonprofit strategic planning Episode 90 Five steps to successful nonprofit strategic planning with Carol Hamilton Click "Read More" for a transcript of the interview you mentioned was this mix of art and science, and I feel like we definitely have that in common as well as I am doing, working with, and strategic planning with organizations.
I really wanna bring both that kind of thing. Analytical side, but then also like all the messiness that you talked about of the people and their perspectives, and how do we bring all of that together and help people have a good conversation about what's going on. so one of the things that you talked about was the challenge of an or an executive director, being a victim of their own success when. Organizations are overly dependent on that CEO or that executive director. Why would you say that that actually is such a common occurrence in our sector? Emily: Yeah, this is, and it's, it's so interesting as you as now we're talking about the sort of science and art or the emotional and, thinking sides of our brains, Being able to see a problem, like by pulling some of those things apart, I think is really helpful for understanding people because, a CEO is always a person. and it works really well to have a very talented and successful CEO or executive director leading an organization, which is why I see it all the time, but. It works until it doesn't. And what I mean by that is when the organization grows to a certain size, it just doesn't, it can't all hold in one person's brain. but it is great. like to start, you can make decisions really quickly. You really have an ingrained set of values that you don't have to question or discuss. but there. The CEOs not the organizations. And so, part of the problem that I see, I talk to people in this situation is that the community starts to associate the organization with the CEO. So they start to only take it seriously if the CEO shows up at an event. I feel like the CEO's the only one who can influence a decision, and that takes power away from other people at the organization and they can't always do their job when it requires influence and decision making. So these sorts of tensions and fissures start to pop up inside the organization and outside because, as an organization grows, one person can't do everything. and when. Their decisions are made intuitively, in their own head. No one knows how they're done. So, of the problems that I see is this burns out the CEO, they can only be at one place at one time. but it also creates a culture of dependence, allowing others to not take the risks. They might miss revenue opportunities or not speak their own mind. and it just creates this unintentional, siloed, top-down thinking that's. I'll be honest, a bit authoritarian, which most nonprofits do not want to be. They want to have broader perspectives and care about others, but the old way just isn't, is no longer working for them. So it just creates this pile of challenges that no one seems to know how to move forward because they worked in the past is not. It's now not working. And there's also, when we talk about this, the emotional side, there's a lot of emotions going on here. There's, us maybe a CEO, questioning their own skills that have gotten them that far. And also, the community, whether it's staff or outside, people start to know. or even fear what happens if the leader isn't there anymore or what the organization is without them? Carol: Yeah, there's so many things in that as well. I mean, that growth point, like with, so an organization can grow, for a while dependent on that one person who's really kind of, making those decisions, influencing people, holding the relationships of maybe board and donors and, key influencers, all of that. But yeah, over time, if the organization becomes. Less of an organization and really just a mirror of that one person. It, it really, it it, I mean, a couple different things come to mind of just kind of, it really clams down on how much more the organization can grow because there's only so much capacity that any one person can bring, no matter how much they martyr themselves to the cause and work too many hours a, a week and, and all of that. but there's really, they're always those limits. But then it also, you know. I've seen organizations that, after a leader like that has left, have gone into a spiral of real crisis because so much of the institutional knowledge, the, the decision making about any, any. Any of the things, the, the relationships, all those things were held up with that one person. And so, when they were no, no longer able to, to be the leader, things fell apart. And in, in one case I'm thinking of, they were able to, to pull it back together, but it was a real, real crisis that they had to go through. And that didn't have to happen. That crisis didn't have to happen. Emily: Yeah, it is. I, I had written somewhere where it's, it's really an inflection point because, an organization's been growing, but it becomes a sink or swim moment of can you make that leap, beyond that, the way things have been with that leader, or do you just keep, draining all your resources around that person? Or in the example you gave, maybe hire someone that you feel like can just. in, in place of that person, but it's not, it's not gonna work. Carol: Well, right. 'cause nothing's written down. files may not be organized, things may not be documented. who their donors are may not be, all of those things may be missing and may be, may have been in that person's head. And oftentimes I don't think it's, it's anything, I'm sure there are a few executive directors where it is a case of power hoarding, but I think in a lot of cases it's just. the moving at the clip, they're moving. It seems like it's gonna take too long to bring other people into the whole process. And so, how do you help? Or, not the executive director, the leader and organizations get themselves out of that bind. Emily: Well, I, I think it's also important to understand how they got there because, sometimes it's a founder, I'm sure you've seen a lot of founders in this situation because they really have that, that drive those values that are internalized, and. able to grow that organization. But I've also seen some organizations where it's a long time leader who wasn't the founder, but they really have this magic. I put magic in quotes because people really talk about it being magic, but of course it's not magic. It's like you have to really break it apart and understand. and so, being able to make these, find funding or make quick decisions on their own. is something that's going on in their head, in their skillset and their personality that needs to be pulled apart. and, and I think also I just wanna like this back a little bit because the other thing to understand is that, a lot of times when you've had these leaders, that, that have been able to grow an organization. A lot of times the hiring sort of balances their skillset. So, you might be, people that have different skill sets than the leader that have more like, their head down, get work done, maybe less relationship building. And so they've been sort of attracted to the job by their fit with a bold CEO. And so they don't necessarily have the. They might be more comfortable letting someone else take risks. they also haven't been given that space to build those skill sets. So not only are you relying so much on the CEO, but you're also creating a vacuum of leadership and risk taking in the rest of the organization. So it's really important to recognize all of that. in this challenge, because it does, it is a lot to pull apart. So I think so. The thing about this is to really see it. And, and that's where, I'll actually, to be honest, a lot of times the first person that talks to me about this challenge is sort of a number two. because they're able to see this challenge, before, before the CEO themselves might. just because it's hard to see when you're in your own bubble, of things that have been working in the past and are no longer working. So really to do this, I, I, we talked about strategic planning. a lot of times when organizations have challenges and need to plan ahead. They start to think about a strategic plan. But in this situation, a lot of times organizations are just, they really need to do some reflection before they go into that strategic plan. So that's really where I start to come up, is to help them hold up a mirror to themselves so that they can start to see. That bubble that they're in, and, reconnect with them, the partners and their community in ways that they've, they've lost because they've been focused on all these stressors that are coming into the organization. Carol: And depending on how the leader is showing up, It's hard for leaders to actually get really good feedback on how they're doing. 'cause people will censor themselves or not necessarily say things, directly. It takes a lot of trust, between a leader and a number two or a leader in their executive team to really be able to have that feedback. And so, when you're doing this big picture. feedback from all the stakeholders and synthesizing it back for the, for the organization. It takes it out of that relationship and, and, and makes it, it's probably, easier for all the folks to hear. And certainly when I am doing that as the beginning part of a strategic planning process, one of the things that I notice is that. Often people are pleasantly surprised that there's more commonality in how they're seeing things than they might've realized 'cause they haven't been talking to each other about it. So it brings all these things out into the open. Emily: Yeah, and I, and I think having that objective, a person comes in to be. Able to hear from everybody is that, like I do notice things where people, maybe they might be using different words and so it can sound like they're talking about something different. But when you really get into, what do they actually mean? what's their, their motivation, their intention, that, that there are a lot of those shared values, like you say, but it takes, it takes someone outside of the organization to really. like how are people interpreting the words that you're using? What do you mean when you advocate, when you support all these words that, know, they have dictionary definitions, but we put a lot of other associations on them, especially within our own organizations. So it's, it's super helpful to just lay it out there. I'll just give you an example 'cause I'm thinking of it is, I was working with an organization and they kept talking about wanting to make their membership more diverse, more diverse, more diverse, and, and then they talked about the makeup of the city, which they worked in. And they talk about, well, we have a very, you know. After, white people, our next biggest population is black people. And we're really, they were really not engaging that population. but they kept doing these things, like putting out things in different languages and trying to connect with like I, immigration organizations. And ultimately that was not, know, I, I would hear them talk about all these. Putting tons of time into these efforts, I'll say. and when they said diversity, they wanted to diversify their membership. I, everyone is sort of saying the word but thinking different things. And so I just reflected exactly what I heard back to them. I said, you, sound like your black community is the biggest population that you're not engaging. So, language isn't a barrier. Immigration isn't the major barrier. It's really getting out into those black communities and making, building those relationships. And so just by saying that, we were able to get real specific about this word diversity that they just kept throwing around, and take it to a really more specific level that they could focus and act on. Carol: Yeah, I mean, I think there. Many organizations that are, have that goal and have that same barrier of, they talk about diversity, but they're not all talking about the same thing, or they haven't gotten clear about, what aspects of human difference are really gonna make a difference to their organization. Like, you're, you're the instance that you're giving that is not just generally it's, it's a specific group of people who, is, you know. A very large population in, in the community that they're in, and they're not, they're not engaging. And so getting, get, kinda getting into the more specifics. And so what do we need to mean by these big words that we throw around? yeah, that, that, that's, an important one. So how, how would you say, what are, what are some ways that organizations can start addressing that imbalance when. When things are outta whack and too much is dependent on the CEO. Emily: Well really, the first thing I do is really help them take a step back and, and really just start talking about what some of them, what do they know and what do they not know? there's a lot of questions out there, whether it's. A CEO that needs to transition. or, there's certain things that are, there needs to be a c-suite. There needs to be some more risk taking and, and leadership from other people within the organization. It's too real. Take that step back and figure out what, what's sort of keeping people from some of these things. Are there relationships that are being sacrificed because of some of these situations? And start to, go and think about, who is this organization beyond the CEO, and what are some of the problems that we're facing? and when we start to lay out. We know and don't know. A lot of times it's these, these sort of broad questions that are harder to answer with data. Like, what do people really value from our organization? What, what do people hope we might do? Without this leader, like, what, what could we do? What, what's sort of like the next level of where this organization could be taken to, what's, how do people feel about some of the things that the organization has done? and so it's, it's sort of the things that, like the only people that really hold those answers are, your community and who you work with. So being able to, start to frame out. Some of those questions, those questions that require listening, can start to bring some clarity around, I think rather than just accepting that things are the way they are, that you could actually find answers to those questions. Carol: And what would you say are some of the benefits for the different levels of the organization? So the leader themselves, the board, the staff, the broader constituency. What are, what are some benefits that you see from helping the organization get unstuck from that? Emily: Well, they really. they really have a better shared understanding of who the organization is. and this, just as an example with a, a recent client, they, board didn't, was always talking differently about who they were. and they didn't always quite know what to take on and what to not, what to say no to. and so by being able to go through this. Through this listing work and holding up that mirror, they could really, rather than talk about the leader and like, oh yeah, you gotta talk to Larry or whatever, they could really, sit down and talk about who the organization was outside of that leader. and so that was, it was really beneficial for the board and for senior staff to just be aligned on. Who the organization was and the value it had in the community. but they also were able to start to prioritize things together. and so rather than having, one person, the CEO working on one thing and other senior leadership working on another thing, we could really see a holistic view of the challenges the organization was facing. And I say even those. Chicken and egg, challenges where you can't tell what's causing the other. and so you start to go in the spin cycle, like, we can't do a strategic plan, so we hire a new executive director, but we can't hire an executive director until we know where we're going. those things, you can really just start to lay out and, and talk about one by one as a team. So it's, it's a lot of but also showcasing like where. Where does an organization have buy-in? Where does it have overlap? and, and really some of those key things that you need to go into a strategic plan with. Carol: Right. And I mean, those are the things that I'm, when I'm working with an organization, trying to help them increase that alignment, that shared understanding, talking through the different options so that they can choose what their priorities are. all of those are super important. So, on each episode I ask each guest, what permission slip or that they would give to nonprofit leaders, or what would they invite them to consider to avoid being a martyr to the cause and as they work towards building a healthier organizational culture? Sure. Emily: I would say, That's okay. I gotta sit and think a little bit. I, I think to be able to see themselves as a person, a person that has and, know, we, we talk a lot about leaders being superheroes and they are, but if, if you're organized, if you can't see yourself as a human, it is hard to then see your organization as an organization. And so be able to, Start to see your own limitations, as we all have, that, know, you can see your strengths as well as your limitations and be able to start to, whether it is, future you desire, moving to a bigger organization or retiring and just volunteering your services and your own pace. Whatever that future is, if you've not. It's gonna get there until you can really see your role as a human in a bigger organization and that those humans can be switched out. And there is, there's great things that someone else can do in that role. And there might be another level that that person could take the organization to, that you just might, you, this just might not be meant for you. Carol: Yeah. So, I am inviting people not to be a martyr, but it's also might just be taking off that superhero cape and putting it aside for a little while and saying, okay, actually I'm a human being, with a bunch of human beings trying to, trying to move something forward for people. and just to, really, really grounding into that. That's great. I love that. So Emily, thank you so much for the conversation. Anything else that you wanted to leave people with before we close out? Emily: Well, I wanted to share, I do have a resource that does, talk about strategic planning. And, and I think in this scenario a lot of CEOs, that are in this growth trajectory, this sort of. sink or swim moments, need to do some of this reflection before going into a strategic plan or creating a succession plan, whatever it might be. So, I'll send that to you. So, they have that as a resource. but they can also follow me on LinkedIn. I love talking about this topic and really helping leaders reflect on it. their role is and what their, their organization can be with or without them. Carol: All right. Well thank you so much. It's been a great conversation. I really appreciate it. Emily: Thank you, Carol. It's great talking to you. Comments are closed.
|
Categories
All
Archives
December 2024
![]() Grace Social Sector Consulting, LLC, owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of the Mission: Impact podcast, as well as the Mission: Impact blog with all rights reserved, including right of publicity.
|
Telephone301-857-9335
|
info[at]gracesocialsector.com
|
Grace Social Sector Consulting, LLC, owns the copyright in and to all content in, including transcripts and audio of the Mission: Impact podcast and all content on this website, with all rights reserved, including right of publicity.
|