Mission: Impact podcast & blog
Build a better world without becoming a martyr to your nonprofit cause
Listen on:
 In episode 111 of Mission: Impact, Carol Hamilton and Asila Calhoun explore:
Episode Highlights: [00:06:15] Common Challenges of New Leaders
Guest Bio: Asila Calhoun, owner of Calhoun Coaching & Consulting, is a certified coach whose leadership and executive coaching practice focuses on partnering with new leaders through executives from a variety of professional backgrounds who are ready for change. Asila facilitates this change during one-on-one and group coaching sessions with her clients and through her consulting services of delivering leadership training, team facilitation, and diversity, equity and inclusion consulting, training and coaching. Asila has clients from several industries, including biotechnology/clinical research, healthcare, property management, and law, as well as leaders of non-profit organizations and business owners. Asila earned her Bachelor’s degree in Sociology from UC Berkeley. She is an Associate Certified Coach (ACC), and a Certified Inclusion Coach (CIC). Asila is also a certified meditation teacher. Important Links and Resources: https://linktr.ee/calhouncoaching Calhoun Coaching & Consulting Monthly Newsletter YouTube Related Episodes: Episode 51: Coaching visionary nonprofit leaders Episode 92: Three stages of nonprofit leadership Episode 103: Equitable nonprofit leadership Episode 107: Nonprofit leadership teams that work Click "Read More" for a transcript of the interview. Carol Hamilton: Well, welcome, Asila. Welcome to Mission Impact.
Asila Calhoun: Thanks for having me, Carol. Carol: It's great to have you here. Oh, I like to start each conversation with what drew you to the work that you do? What would you say motivates you and what would you describe as your why? Asila: It's a great question. And I would say after over 25 years in HR, where I saw new managers kind of dropped into the deep end and sort of asked to either sink or swim without support, I realized that there's nothing more important than investing in leaders. We know from all the research that people leave their manager and author job. And so why don't we invest in new leaders as they're getting started early in their career versus waiting until their directors or VPs, et cetera. So I just really wanted to support new leaders and just felt like it was a worthwhile investment to pour into them. Carol: Yeah. And that's certainly a situation we have in the nonprofit sector where folks, you know, get promoted they're supervising some folks and rarely get the training or support that they need to kind of, you know, shift from doing that individual contributed work or that, you know, frontline work maybe even the work that kind of drew them to the mission to then, you know, Working through other people. What are some of the what are the, some of the mistakes that you see folks making when they, when they don't kind of have a framework or support to make that transition? Yeah, Asila: a lot of times delegating is a huge issue for people who just are starting in leadership. They just don't want to let go of the work. And again, like you said, they were attracted to the work because of the mission, et cetera. And they've moved away from that when they go into leadership. Another issue is managing former peers and what that is like, if they've come up in, in the ranks, as you described, Carol. And. hard about that is you kind of know the person well enough to know what their strengths and weaknesses are. And sometimes there's the friendship aspect that can get into the way. And so not setting boundaries and being clear about expectations and how the relationship just absolutely has to change. And then I think that kind of goes part and parcel to that is giving feedback, you know, giving difficult feedback is a struggle for a Most of us, you know, most of us want to be liked, want to be appreciated. And having those difficult conversations can be really challenging, especially for new leaders. Again, who have just come up through and maybe haven't had any leadership development or training. So as a coach, I just think it's such a great opportunity to work with Lee. I work with leaders of all levels, but I really love working with new leaders because I think it's so important to set them off on the right path. Carol: You talked about delegation and I, you know, I see that so frequently with nonprofit leaders and oftentimes they're, you know, they're working with a small staff, they're, they're being expected to, to, you know, wear many different hats. But that, that active letting go can be so challenging or even kind of knowing what's there. What's going to be a helpful thing to delegate? What, what are some ways that you help people kind of start taking steps towards going through that letting go process and, and, and delegating effectively, because, you know, you don't want it to just be a dump of, okay, here are all these tasks that I need you to do. Asila: absolutely. And, and that's one of the big issues is people feel like they're dumping. And a lot of times it's actually a growth and a learning opportunity for the person that you're delegating to. So I think at first starts just internally, like, What is getting in the way with the delegation? Is it that they don't trust the team member that they need to delegate to? Is it that they feel like they're dumping or the person already has too much work? Just kind of getting to the heart of what gets in the way of them delegating and then talking about, well, what's, what's the impact if you don't delegate this work? What is that doing to you as a leader, you're burning out, you're again, not developing the person on your team when that's a big part of your job. When you become a manager or in leadership you are developing the people who work for you so that they can take over so that they can grow so that they can learn. So really getting into those. Essential. Why? Like what's standing in the way and then helping them see that by not delegating, they're actually stepping in their own way. And then on a really fast track to burn out. Right? If they're doing all of the work and they're not delegating any of it, then they're just burning themselves out. Carol: Yeah. And I, I had an instance recently, now I'm not, I have a team of contractors that I work with, but I was working with somebody and did a little bit of coaching or, or was coached myself and was kind of working through, you know, I've, I've been doing kind of a DIY thing for a long time around a particular part of my business. And, and they talked about the, the. Parts of your work where, you know, you can do it. Like I could do it. I was kind of muddling through, but I wasn't, you know, I wasn't an expert. I wasn't, you know, particularly skilled in it. And so I did make the decision to, you know, hire somebody to take over that particular piece and delegate it to them. And oh my God, it's such a pleasure to work with somebody. Asila: Right? Carol: But they're doing and doing it well. And I know that's a little bit of a different instance than, you know, you know, delegating to a, to a junior, but it, it may not be right. I mean, it may be their particular skill or they've got more time to really invest in it. And so it was like, Oh, wow, this is going to be so much better. Asila: Yeah. And it really is. Yeah. When I first started my business, one of the women who was just a great supporter and advocate for me gave me the advice, stay in your lane. And I took that so much to heart. So exactly what you're saying. Okay. Social media or making a website or all these things, not my jam, not in my lane, not my genius, let me hire somebody else who can do that work. I wouldn't hire my CPA to work on my car. So let's just get the right people doing the right thing. Carol: Yeah, I think probably having, you know, come up in the nonprofit sector where you're kind of thrown into things and you have to kind of learn on the job and, you know, you're doing a lot of different things. Maybe not to a level of perfection. That was just my, my M. O. Right. I just, you know, it's like I can do it. Asila: that's Carol: I can learn it. Asila: Yes. Carol: You know, yeah now, now letting it go and, and, and doing it, getting more in my lane is working better. Yeah. Asila: that I'll often ask clients who are struggling with delegation is to ask themselves, you know, does it have to be you? Like, do you have to do this or can someone else do this just as effectively? Might Carol: Yeah. We can get in our own way when we, Asila: it, but Carol: right. Asila: It's done. Carol: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, being able to articulate, going back to expectations that you talked about being able to kind of, you know, articulate, well, what's our end goal? I'm not necessarily, you know, you may get there differently than I would. But what's our end goal and what, what ultimately do we need to have happen? One of the things you talked about was when folks shift into a leadership role and maybe they're now having to supervise folks that had been peers. What are some ways that, you know, people can kind of manage that transition? Asila: Yeah. That one is really challenging for folks. Especially if they had really close relationships because you cannot have the same relationship and be effective because there's perceived issues. know, with favoritism and things like that. And so always encourage people to, in the leadership development classes that I teach, et cetera, really set expectations with their team about that relationship change. It's a really fine line. You've got to be friendly, but not a friend. You have to be professional and respectful. And again, you probably know a lot about these folks and don't use that against them, right? You know, how can you help develop those areas where they might be struggling or need a little bit more support and guidance? But it's really about setting expectations with the group and then also individually. you know, it means. Not going to lunch with the whole group, you know, the way that you used to and not hanging out on the weekends or after hours. You know, are there ways that you can still socialize with the group as a leader by bringing in lunch for everyone? Or everybody goes to lunch or celebrates certain things. Big wins in the office, et cetera, together, but, you know, going out in pairs for lunch or hanging out on the weekends, or even, you know, depends on how active you are on social media, even that can get you into some trouble with personal things going on in each other's lives. Carol: Yeah. So, Asila: shift for folks. Carol: yeah, I mean, and, and, you know, it's like, I, That, that balance between being friendly, but not friends. That's an interesting line. Yeah. Yeah. Asila: Really Carol: Then one of the things that you said people really struggle with is having those difficult conversations or, you know, and I mean, providing feedback, feedback, you know, doesn't always need to be constructive feedback. Hopefully you're, you're also noticing people's, you know, what they're doing well, and you know, that, that's always important. But what are some of the ways that people can think about kind of getting, preparing themselves to, to have one of those difficult conversations? Asila: You know, I think you said it right there. Prepare. I think what happens so often is, you know, we're all busy. You're flying from one meeting to the next. You're not really thinking about and planning about what you would like to say. What's important? What are those nuggets that are really necessary? So thinking about what, what is, what is really needed in this conversation, you know, let's not do a whole laundry list of issues. What are one to three things that you can share to really prepare for that? what you're going to say, have your talking points, just be ready to have that conversation and know how you want to come across, you know, how do you want to feel afterwards? often will ask that to clients. How do they want to feel afterwards? Like they might feel really proud of themselves for actually doing it, for getting the words out and that preparation really makes a difference. So taking the time to, I said, write out some bullet points and top things that you want to say and, and then deliver it in a way that the person can hear. And sometimes that means, like, starting with some questions, like, alright, so how do you think that project went last week, Carol? And then Carol can say. You know what? I really feel like I messed up here. And then that gives you that lead in. And so you're not necessarily having to be the first one to notice or or acknowledge what happened that went off the rails. so, now, just really getting ready for the conversation, I think, is the most important thing to do when you are delivering feedback. Carol: And how about when you're on the other side? I mean, that person, the person ideally who's delivering the feedback has had some time to think about it, thought through how they want to deliver it. As you said, thought through, okay, this is how I want to feel on the other side. How about for the person who's receiving the feedback, how you help, can you help them prepare? Okay. Asila: Yeah. I think, you know, the best leaders actually schedule these conversations and say, when we meet for one on one, I want to talk about the project last week, and then they know something is coming and can prepare themselves. Nobody likes surprises. Nobody likes to, you know, hear something just kind of off the cuff, you know, certainly feedback should always be delivered, you know, when it's constructive should always be delivered privately, so not out in the cube farms and all those kinds of things. So just making sure that you are being respectful and again, scheduling. So they have time to prepare and think about what they want to say in response. Carol: Yeah, although when you, when you get a message like that or an email, you may just be like, can we just talk right now? Asila: Yeah. Carol: I want to wait. I have to worry and go through the worst case scenario of what's about to happen. Asila: No doubt about it. Carol: So you said you talked about the fact that you work with you know, leaders at all levels. What are, what are some of the trends or, or challenges that you're noticing with your nonprofit clients that you're working with and in that coaching capacity? Asila: Yeah. You know, I think there's always, you know, delegation, which we've already talked about, it's, it's always a huge one, no matter what level, you know, that you are, it's just a tough one for folks. Lately I've been hearing a lot about burnout and people just being really overwhelmed, you know, having too much to do, not enough time to do it, not enough resources. and so those are a couple that really bubble up in just the recent conversations with coaching clients that I have. Carol: Yeah. And I feel like I feel like that probably was always there, but people are willing to name it now in a different way. Asila: I think you're right about that. I think you're right about that. Carol: What are, how are you helping people kind of think through what they can do about it? Asila: You know, I think just recognizing that you're only one person and you can't do all of the things. And so really setting some boundaries for yourself and for others about what you can do. Accomplish, given that there are fewer resources, less time, all the things, and doing some protection around your own self care and your needs. You know, I was just having a conversation with a client the other day who reflected, am not giving my best when I am giving my all. And, you know, really recognize that. He was working too many hours. It was not helpful. It was not healthy. He was sick last week as a result and felt like there was this expectation to be front and center at work. so he admitted that his reflection time that had been so meaningful for him and so helpful to just kind of get his head ready for the day had slipped. So what was lost with that slippage? And he recognized that he wasn't able to show his best without taking that time for himself to reflect, to kind of take a little walk in the morning, to just be ready to face the day. He said sometimes he'll like to send himself notes or voice messages as he's on his walk. And then he gets to the office and he can really focus. And without that, there's no calm for that chaos. so letting those things slip, those things that give you that peace, whether that's journaling, meditation, a walk, exercise, whatever it is that you need. Don't put that on the back burner just because things are on fire at work. Carol: Well, and I'm always like, well, how can we, there, there are, there are some. There is some work that is always going to be, that is, it is about emergencies, Asila: for sure. Carol: But there's so much other work. Where it does not need to be on fire all the time. And I'm curious, you know, there are a lot of things that people can integrate into their own lives and they need to figure out kind of what works for them in terms of, you know, is it a walk? Is it a, you know, for me, it's a walk and the reflection and the meditation and all the things. But how about at the organizational level, what can leaders do to kind of help, you know, start You know, building, building organizational norms around that. So it's not just the responsibility of each person to kind of figure out how to manage it for themselves. No. Asila: I think you can bring meditation into the office, you know, in fact, I'm a certified meditation teacher. And so I do work with clients on that. So bringing in some guided meditation instruction or or just teaching people how to learn, how to meditate, those kinds of things can be helpful. And you know, having an EAP, I think, is also really important. So employee assistance program, so that employees have a place to call when they are stressed and overwhelmed doing things like making sure people are taking their time off is really important and really, really able to unplug, not, you know, pretend time off, but real time off, you know, because sometimes people say the P for PTO is pretend time off. Then also. And, you know, that's tough, like really unplugging, really getting away from the work and not feeling like you're tethered with your phone or your email or what have you. And, you know, even simple things, maybe not simple, easy, but, you know. But not simple. Carol: Right, Asila: Are all the meetings necessary? Carol: right. Asila: Can there be things that are better off in an email? Or do you have to be in that meeting? So it goes back to the stay in your lane conversation that we had earlier. Do we need to all talk about this? Do we all need to be there? Can this slide? What needs to happen now versus what can be pushed to later. And so just really being intentional about the work, the workload, and the capacity that everyone has. So that you're not burning people out. Carol: Yeah. Yeah. And I think the biggest thing is the leader modeling those things. So, right. So if they are answering emails and calling people throughout their entire vacation, they're, they're, they're, I think, Demonstrating to everybody that that's what the expectation is, even if the words are, you know, unplug and take your time off. So, you know, I think for leaders, it's always important that everyone's watching their behavior and that much more than what they're, what they're saying. Yeah. I've, yeah. In terms of the, like, Asila: watching. Carol: Meetings that could, you know, could have been an email and remembering that, you know, there's different, there's so many different options for communicating now. You know, we used to just have, you know, email written word, or whenever back in the day used to be memos or whatnot. But I, I, Started when I'm working with someone, oftentimes I'll create little videos. I have a, Asila: Mm Carol: you know, a little system that, so if I'm handing, for example, the delegation, I'm handing off a task and I'll walk through, do a little screen share of how I do it and what, you know, my thinking is I'm, I'm talking through it and so And they don't have to do it exactly the way I do it, but it gives them not only the how to, but also the kind of, you know, as I'm, as I'm talking through it, I'm talking, this is why I do it this way and my thinking. And so those little snippets have been, or to give feedback. I've done that with, with documents. So, you know, done written feedback, but then also talked through them. Asila: hmm. Mm Carol: That people can see that. And, and so you can do those things asynchronously. So not everybody has to be, you know, together in a meeting. Asila: Yeah. And then they're evergreen. You can reuse the snippets that are the how Carol: Sometimes, sometimes those things are, yeah, yeah. Asila: That's Carol: And I mean, more and more people are having to, to work remotely. And we've talked about it. Managers, you know, not being oftentimes not getting the leadership development they need to, to be managers. And I, to me, at least my, my bias is that a lot of the struggle with folks moving to a remote environment is that they haven't gotten the, the leadership development on how is this different and how do we need, you know, what do we need to pay attention to, you know, cause. This notion, I've said before that, that, you know, there's no culture unless you're in the office. Well, there's always culture. It's just, how is it showing up and how are you, you know, pulling people together? And Asila: How are you Carol: yeah. So what, what are you seeing that's working in terms of, you know, folks managing in a, in a more of a remote environment? Asila: You know, I think it can be really helpful when there is one day in the office that everybody is in. Can be really helpful if that's possible. Obviously, some organizations, they're too spread out for that. But having that face time in the office is helpful. Even regular leadership retreats and meetings together that are in person can be helpful. I've got a new client that I'm working with. It's having everybody come in next week for two days. And it's been a couple of years since they've done that. So just bringing people together, you know, but intentionally not just, you know, bring people in, but. Something that is going to drive behaviors and move things forward, whether that's leadership or the whole staff. But even on a weekly basis, is there a day that everybody's in the office to have that face time? Carol: Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, the remote doesn't mean that folks never see each other in person. And so, you know, being intentional about you know, Pulling everybody together, I don't know, like you said, for a couple days, maybe once a quarter, once every six months, you know, if, if, if they're, they don't have that cadence of everybody's in the office. And I do think you know, there's, there's the kind of desire to allow flexibility, but if. If you don't have that, if you, if you're doing the hybrid and you don't have everyone coming in on the same day, then you have people going to an office that's empty. And it's like, what's the point? I'm just on zoom again. So what am I doing? Asila: Yeah. Carol: I think, yeah if you're going to do that, it does make much more sense to me that you're kind of making sure that people are overlapping so that they can do that little, you know, I'm going to pop over here and have a quick conversation about X, Y, Z or whatnot. Asila: And I Carol: out to lunch and that kind of thing. Even before Asila: an environment that thinks about the whole team and not just the people that they see in the office, not just the people that they might bump into at the break room. And so being really intentional about that. So that there isn't anyone who is sort of left behind or that is, has some bias against, you know, purposely necessarily, but just because they're not there in front of them. And so there's much more intentional. Awareness needed for leaders to think of the whole team and each individual. All right, whose voice isn't heard? You know, who have I not had a conversation with? Who do I need to check in with? Am I treating everyone equitably? Even though some are, I'm seeing more regularly and some I'm not. Mm Carol: the pandemic I had when I worked inside an organization, I had several remote staff Asila: hmm. Carol: And when we would gather in larger groups with, you know, my team, with other teams, I would always make sure that they were up on the screen with their faces. Because otherwise, if you just had them on the conference call, everyone forgot they were there and forgot they existed. And so she's like, okay, no, this person is on the team and they're confused. way they could, you know, hopefully be able to hear a little bit better and all of that. So it's, it's a lot to manage though, those hybrid situations. Asila: It is a lot to Carol: Yeah. So at the end of each episode, I ask each guest what we've been talking about a lot about this, these kinds of things, but what permission slip or invitation they would give nonprofit leaders to avoid being a martyr to the cause. And, and, you know, to work towards building healthier and more inclusive organizational cultures. So what permission slip or invitation would you put out to leaders? Asila: So I would invite leaders to invest in themselves and their own development, whether that is through coaching or leadership training or a combination of both. But really there's so often that what happens in leadership, especially in nonprofits is it's not a. There's not enough money for this. There's not enough money for me. Invest in yourself. You will be a better leader for it. Carol: Yeah, you will be a better leader and I would argue that with that, you'll be better at achieving your mission. So it is an investment in that as well. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. It was great having you on. I appreciate the conversation. Asila: Thank you for inviting me, Carol. Great to be with you today. Comments are closed.
|
Categories
All
Archives
October 2024
Grace Social Sector Consulting, LLC, owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of the Mission: Impact podcast, as well as the Mission: Impact blog with all rights reserved, including right of publicity.
|
RSS Feed